05 Nov 2012 05:30
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Readers of my local newspaper debate whether faith or science provides a better foundation for understanding how the world works.
This is the reader feedback section of The Advertiser for Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - South Australia. These comments are taken from page 18.
My belief is enough
I WRITE in regard to Tory Shepherd's article (The Advertiser, yesterday). I read her articles often, not out of finding agreement with what she says, but purely to see what she will say next.
I believe in God. This, by her standards (and those of many others), makes me ignorant.
I know I am not the most intelligent person, but I know what I know.
If this makes me ignorant, let it be known that I am peacefully and blissfully so.
I am convinced of what I believe in to be true, just as Ms Shepherd is convinced of what she believes in to be true. She has faith as I have faith, the only differences being, I have faith in God, she holds faith in man and mankind's achievements.
I find my faith to be the assurance of things I hope for, the evidence and conviction of the things I cannot see. My faith is enough for me, but at the same time, I find in science, not contradictions to my faith, but instead things that complement it.
I know my world view is fading fast in this day and age, but I think true believers must get involved in discussing these things, otherwise we are only left with people who think like Ms Shepherd does: That science is the judge of all truth claims, and then our faith is cast aside as superstition, and God himself is omitted from the discussion.
We need open discussion on this, otherwise we are left only with loud voices and arguments instead of conversations.
We do need to examine the relationship between science and faith, but in a way that builds and benefits all - not just those with biases, or pre-determined outcomes.
Yes, I have a bias, but at least I admit what it is and I can come to a point of listening to another person's opinion.
We need to put God back into the conversation. I don't expect Ms Shepherd to change her mind or opinions, but I do expect her to consider her own faith that she defends so strongly and allow room to consider God in her thought process.
At least consider Him. I will pray that she does so.
LUKE J. WATTS, Nairne.
Divining philosophy
REGARDING Ian Olver's study of intercessory prayer (The Advertiser, yesterday) it seems apt to paraphrase the ancient Greek philosopher, Epicurus (changing "evil" to "disease"): Is God willing to prevent disease, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh disease?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
RUBY LENNOX, Blackwood.
A bet each way
TORY Shepherd claims "Belief without proof is one thing but science is the only way to understand how the world works".
She refers to a study which found cancer patients who were prayed for had a better quality of life and emotional wellbeing.
In religious circles when it is claimed a prayer has yielded sensational results, it is sometimes called a miracle.
Less sensational or negative outcomes, on the other hand, are simply regarded as God's will. In gambling circles, this would be called "having a bet each way".
NEIL LONGBOTTOM, Minlaton.
Keep the faith
WHILE scratching my head on how to answer Tory Shepherd, I glanced across at Insight section of Marty Smith's daily column and read: "Truth isn't altered by how many believe it". Or in Tory's article, how many do not.
Science does not prove that God did not create but how he did. But in our limited knowledge of how he did, we can find we have huge gaps in our knowledge and always will on this Earth.
When it comes to faith, what in all creation are the atheists upset about when to them there is no God?
So why do atheists condemn believers if they think there is nothing there? Keep praying, fellow Christians.
B. V. HAMILTON, Bordertown.
Power of prayer
PRAYING for arch-atheist C. Hitchens, who wrote God is not Great, may help him, according to a study (The Advertiser, yesterday).
But another study in the US showed quite the opposite, and if he knew he was being prayed for, he would have 14 per cent greater chance of complications.
Maybe his affliction is some form of divine retribution and prayers challenge the will of God.
STUART JARDINE, West Hindmarsh.
Seeking a miracle
TORY Shepherd, why don't you write something useful on health, such as fluoride in our water supply, instead of atheist codswallop? Now that would be a miracle.
PHYLLIS RILEY, Wynn Vale.
A free gift
TO Tory Shepherd, belief or faith in Jesus is a free gift. Some will accept it, some will not. If science is the only way to understand how the world works, why does it have to change all the time to make it fit?
Even the chemicals used in medicine are created by God.
J. LEHMANN, Modbury.
Shift the focus
PLEASE, please, no more rampant free advertising for the Roman Catholic Church.
Who cares about canonisation, sainthoods, et al, when massive child abuse has still not been properly addressed.
ELDERT HOEBEE, Torrens Park.
The previous message from Eldert Hoebee referred to Mary MacKillop, Australia's first canonised saint.
Children need God
CHRIS Judd, 2010 Brownlow Medal winner, after receiving the award, remarked that football should show "the type of person you and your teammates are".
Good thinking.
Are we Australians letting sport destroy our children? In every public park, every Sunday morning, children gather for hours.
For what? To hit balls, kick balls, run …
Do their parents really want them growing up little atheistic robots? Children need a reason to exist. Nobody is telling them one - no, not even on Sundays.
Children need to know about God: that he exists, that he loves us, that he wants us to live in obedience to him here on Earth, and finally to live with him and enjoy him forever in heaven.
Children need the sacraments of the church to empower them to resist the culture of emptiness being constantly rammed down their throats.
(Dr) ARNOLD JAGO, Mildura.
Missing Muslim
A MEMBER of the Islamic movement, the Saviours of Mankind, is reported missing in Egypt (The Advertiser, 2010-10-08).
Mr Safaa Al Awadi, visiting the North African nation to take part in televised religious debates, may have upset clerics and the Egyptian Government, resulting in him being accused of being a terrorist and spreading a false religion.
He has not been heard of since Semptember 27. Presumably Mr Al Awadi was aware of the perils of speaking out on controversial religious topics in Muslim countries.
It is to be hoped that his family and friends, together with Centrelink, will care and provide for his wife and seven children until his safe return to his Australian home.
JOHN STEVENS, Hyde Park.
Centrelink is the Australian Government's human services division, disbursing social security payments to Australians that need some help with their income.
What do you think?
- Are you a theist or atheist?
- Do you agree or disagree with any of the opinions posted above?
- Does science support or dismiss belief in God?
Somehow, the question always comes down to whether one believes in faith or science. The real question comes down to faith and faith: Faith in God, or faith in Evolution. It is sad that people consider Evolution science; if we see Evolution for how it is, a faith in chance and time, then we see how science in fact supports the idea of a God instead of Evolution, but if we already assume Evolution is science, which promotes the idea of a self-sustaining Universe, then it becomes easy to see how a God may not exist. But Evolution isn't science.
Therefore, when we consider for whether faith or science is a better basis for understanding how the world works, the answer is both. Science helps us understand that a God must exist, and faith helps us understand the God who created everything.
This was my favorite quote by the way:
I've always wondered this myself. It isn't like we are going to Atheist hell for believing in God. If anything, we should be upset because of what our faith says.
And finally, I cannot help but answer this question (which is on Life's Handbook as well):
For God, the whole mess of sin is a giant dilemma. He could simply purge it, but because He is just, to demolish sin He must demolish us (note I'm equating disease and sin here, since sin caused disease in the first place). Because He loves us, He doesn't want to demolish us, thus the dilemma. God solved this problem by sacrificing Himself to pay for all sin. Disease still exists since it is a consequence of sin, and sin's consequence will not be cleansed until the time Jesus claims what is rightfully His, which He will not do until the fullness of the Church.
This was a good post. It got me pretty involved XD
Timothy Foster - @tfAuroratide
Auroratide.com - Go here if you're nerdy like me
I was once told that the word 'disease' should be broken up into 'dis' and 'ease', i.e. meaning 'not at ease'.
Science is a bunch of theories. Some of those theories seem to have a lot of evidence to prove them, and yet others don't. Therefore the way I see it the theory of evolution is just that - a theory - it's a scientific theory and a result of people trying to understand how the universe works.
But evolution is one of those theories that still, after so many years, doesn't have much legitimate evidence to back it up. Some schools teach evolution to students as if it is truth, whilst others teach the word of God to students, claiming that it is also truth.
God and evolution are not necessarily mutually exclusive … both theories may be partially based on the truth. It's which theory someone feels is the most correct, the theory that they put their faith in, that puts a label on that person. They're either a theist ("believer") or atheist.
As both theories require faith, a debate between theists and atheists will never result in a clear winner. Debates like this can only be won through presenting hard evidence, and neither christians nor evolutionists have that. When it gets right down to it, for the debate to end, people need to take a step of faith (in either direction).
Which direction do I believe is the right one? God.
~ Leiger - Wikidot Community Admin - Volunteer
Wikidot: Official Documentation | Wikidot Discord server | NEW: Wikiroo, backup tool (in development)
Evolution may not be a science, but I think archaeology is. There are multiple methods of determining how old fossil evidence is, and they more or less agree. If we are to discard archaeology then we must believe that God is purposely misleading us, and in that case all of science falls. It is not even certain that the light will turn on when you press the switch; yesterday God may have made the light turn on just to test you today. I cannot believe in a God that lies.
It is impossible by definition to divine the mind of God, but when there is a history of a billion years of life on this planet before humans existed, I find myself convinced that God must have had a reason and a purpose. If we assume He is omniscient then we must believe that he designed the Universe with that billion years as a key part.
There are difficulties with the theory of evolution; it is still a theory and not a law. There are many fewer difficulties than some creationists portray, and there is a lot of evidence in its favour, but we still have not understood exactly how it could work in every detail. However I like my God to be all-powerful, and all-knowing, and a God that could create a single cell a billion years ago, knowing that it would ultimately result in the human race and the vast diversity of life on this planet seems to me greater than a God that has to painstakingly create every creature individually. How much greater is a God that started with a ball of molten rock or a cloud of gas or just six numbers and a big bang?
Of course, ultimately all five Gods are equivalent; God did design every creature. Even if He did nothing after the big bang, He did it by designing the laws of science just so. In fact, God being unknowable and his ways mysterious, if we worship any one of the five, we will be worshipping the One.
The problem of evil is a matter of free will. He can not intervene without destroying free will. The problem of disease is a matter of scale. Should there be lions and tigers, polar bears and sharks on the planet, even though some of them eat people? Or would it glorify God if we were to kill them all?
Exactly! That is what I was trying to allude to when I said that God and evolution are not mutually exclusive. Evolution may exist in some form, guided by a God. Evolutionists today (at least, the more outspoken minority, perhaps) seem to hold a more extreme view, believing that there is no room for God in the evolution theory.
Personally, I do not believe the 7-day creation story was ever intended to be literal. It was a myth created by early humans - possibly even as a "scientific" theory, based on their limited scientific knowledge at the time (i.e. virtually nothing). They believed that God created the earth, yet in their struggle to understand how he did that they came up with the creation stories - or so I believe (there are some that disagree with me on this).
Saying that something is a myth is not the same as saying that it is a lie, or that it's false. It merely means that it was never intended to be an exact, factual account. It only represents the truth in some way.
Wikipedia is better at explaining my views than even I am :)
~ Leiger - Wikidot Community Admin - Volunteer
Wikidot: Official Documentation | Wikidot Discord server | NEW: Wikiroo, backup tool (in development)
Exactly right, and that is the difference between a myth and a legend.
You may like this: http://www.prometheus-music.com/audio/wordgod.mp3
That link is from the publishers and is legitimate, but I should probably include a link to the album page: http://www.prometheus-music.com/mysings.html
I usually prefer the style of music that the group 'SONICFLOOd' plays, rather than the slower hymns etc. But surprisingly, I actually didn't mind that :) Thanks.
~ Leiger - Wikidot Community Admin - Volunteer
Wikidot: Official Documentation | Wikidot Discord server | NEW: Wikiroo, backup tool (in development)
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